Cold Steel

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Posts by Cold Steel

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  26

  People who will never hear the WT message

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you are all familiar with the heartwarming images of people from all lands joining in a "great crowd" marching in to the promised land.

  it occurred to me with more than nine countries and 1.6 billion people who are not recorded in the yearbook, that a great number of ethnic groups will not be represented.

  china.

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  Cold Steel

  Slightly...but to play Devil's Advocate, Jesus stated: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." It doesn't say that every person has to hear the gospel message; merely that it has to be preached in all the world. Jehovah's Witnesses and other religions preached in China before it became communist. They preached in Hong Kong before it became communist and I'm sure elsewhere. There are still some nations to go, but a case could be made for the gospel being preached in most of the world. It's not easy getting anything, including food and medicine, into North Korea.

  The Muslims will kill you if you come into their countries with the idea of converting them. Even in the Philippines, where there's a high degree of religious freedom, it's difficult to get Muslims interested. Even if they are, they many times fear their own family, neighbors and/or friends due to their quaint sense of...let's see, what do they call it? Ah, yes, honor. It's like, "Ahmed, I saw you talking to some Christian missionaries yesterday. I want to tell you that as your best friend and as your only sister's dear husband, that I love you as a brother, and from the bottom of my heart I would deeply abhor having to cut off your head and stick it on a pole placed on the road outside your loving mother's home. So please accept my advice, my friend, we don't want to see you doing that anymore! It's a bad example. Stick to the loving, patient, benevolent and kind, merciful sayings of Jehov...er...Allah, and do not dishonor your family. It's not a good idea."

  Unlike the Jehovah's Witnesses, they're not a very understanding or open-minded people. They don't want their members reading anything contrary to their own religious views and will seek to punish those who leave the faith.
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  26

  People who will never hear the WT message

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you are all familiar with the heartwarming images of people from all lands joining in a "great crowd" marching in to the promised land.

  it occurred to me with more than nine countries and 1.6 billion people who are not recorded in the yearbook, that a great number of ethnic groups will not be represented.

  china.

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  Cold Steel

  God is a God of justice, and the scriptures state that the time will come when "every knee shall bend" and "every tongue confess Christ." And the apostle Peter wrote: " For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Peter 3:18-20) Here Peter states that when Jesus died, His body lay in the tomb, but that He was made alive in the spirit, by which He preached to the spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

  He later added: " For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Peter 4:6)

  This would not be possible if the Jehovah's Witness doctrine of "soul sleeping" were true, for Peter tells us that the gospel is preached to the dead and that Jesus instituted it when He was crucified. Thus, a man can live on Earth, die, be taught the gospel and can be judged according to men in the flesh, yet be in the spirit.

  hy7l. The JW doctrine that men don't have spirits needs to be revised, and that the dead who die not in Christ are taught the gospel in the spirit world. So in this way they can be judged as if they were in the flesh, yet they abide as spirits.
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  116

  God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites - What does the bible REALLY teach?

  by irondork in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  that is why god gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature;and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.

  romans 1:26,27.

  (excerpts from: homosexianity by r. d. weekly for the sake of familiarity, scripture quotations appearing in the book were replaced with the new world translation) http://www.amazon.com/homosexianity-letting-devastating-scripture-orientation/dp/1442163062/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=utf8&qid=1356175321&sr=1-1&keywords=homosexianity.

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  Cold Steel

  CS’s attitude, his “great advert” is exactly what the apostle warned us of when he spoke of Satan being an “angel of light” followed by, “It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness.” (2 Corinthian 11:15)

  You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but on the one hand you don’t buy into Christianity, and on the other you’re quoting Paul warning against deceit by evil spirits masquerading as angels of light.

  We’ve looked at the scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments. You do the same thing that Jehovah's Witnesses do in their scriptural exegesis: you take scriptures that are perfectly clear and then attempt to obfuscate them by saying they don’t mean what they appear to mean. You have the right to do so, but your views represent only a very small minority of recognized scholarship. In fact, I know of no non-activist commentaries that reinterpret these scriptures.

  The true source of CS’s information is easily detected in the amount of hate and anger and the spit and venom with which he peddles his version of Christianity. Again, not surprising.

  Hate, anger, spit and venom? Moi?? I thought we were discussing biblical exegesis. I feel neither hate nor anger, nor spit and venom regarding homosexuals. I would hire gay individuals in a heartbeat if I had a business. And I was perfectly clear that I in no way want to limit their rights in society. I even was clear in my belief that homosexuals can gain eternal life and that God loves them every bit as much as His other children. My personal view is that homosexuality is an anomaly of nature, whether it’s in animals or people. Sex is hard wired into us to perpetrate the species, and homosexuality doesn’t act to that end. Most of the pedophiles are gay or have gay tendencies. The Lord stated: “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.” (Deuteronomy 22:5) I watch the coverage of the parades in San Francisco and the gay rights marches and what do I see? Nude lesbians and gay men dressed as nuns, large phallic appendages attached to their waists, lipstick, wigs, men wearing women’s clothing and other vulgarities. I haven’t seen one gay rights parade that didn’t have these things in abundance. Yet somehow it’s me the one with the problem. It’s me who’s filled with hate, anger, fear, spit and venom.

  This simply is not the case.

  I admit feeling disgust at the parades and marches, and the debaucheries of homosexuals throughout history, such as Prince Henry of Prussia and the extensive network in the German Third Reich. But like I said, I don’t judge gays, and I don’t have problems hiring them or working with them, nor do I think God hates them or throws them into a never-ending hell. I routinely socialize with several, and though they're not close friends, I have no problem breaking bread with them on occasion. I don’t know what they do in the bedroom and don’t want to know. We’re all judged of God ultimately, and I prefer to keep it that way.
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  165

  Your most DISTURBING WATCHTOWER Bethel/Branch experience? (No full names please)

  by Balaamsass in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  ok.. you 70 plus bethelite members.... this is your chance to share stories!

  inquiring minds want to know !no full names please..follow t.o.s.

  to avoid borg libel lawsuits).. i will start the ball rolling with week one.

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  Cold Steel

  We had heard rumors that Leo Greenlees was asked to leave Bethel, so I called my brother to ask about it. He said to me in the coldest voice imaginable, "Where did you hear that?" I said, "From one of the sisters in the congregation." He replied, "Listen to me, THAT is a family matter. Anything YOU need to know will be in the Watchtower."

  Which means you don't need to know anything about it, right?

  How do JWs reconcile the fact that so many of their GB members are either pedophiles or other morally challenged individuals? If that happened in the leadership of my church, I'd walk. And how can JWs think for a minute that their GB members are chosen by God?

  Anyway, it seems as though word gets out eventually, despite the best efforts.
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  116

  God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites - What does the bible REALLY teach?

  by irondork in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  that is why god gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature;and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.

  romans 1:26,27.

  (excerpts from: homosexianity by r. d. weekly for the sake of familiarity, scripture quotations appearing in the book were replaced with the new world translation) http://www.amazon.com/homosexianity-letting-devastating-scripture-orientation/dp/1442163062/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=utf8&qid=1356175321&sr=1-1&keywords=homosexianity.

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  Cold Steel

  I really don't know why gay people even bother wih Christianity

  What do you mean by this? Gay people "bother" with Christianity for the same reason non-gay people do...because it's true. It offers salvation to both Jew and Gentile, bond and free, male and female. Christianity is either true or it's not. If not, then no one should bother with it.
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  116

  God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites - What does the bible REALLY teach?

  by irondork in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  that is why god gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature;and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.

  romans 1:26,27.

  (excerpts from: homosexianity by r. d. weekly for the sake of familiarity, scripture quotations appearing in the book were replaced with the new world translation) http://www.amazon.com/homosexianity-letting-devastating-scripture-orientation/dp/1442163062/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=utf8&qid=1356175321&sr=1-1&keywords=homosexianity.

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  Cold Steel

  Did [God institute marriage]? Do you have any proof that story is true? Do you have any proof that a god even exists?

  I have evidence that God exists, but not proof. God’s very nature precludes Him from providing proof, and there are good reasons for that. If He provided proof, all those on Earth who comprehended it would be bound to do His will or stand condemned to suffer perdition. This would also negate our free agency to a great extent. How? Many today, even if they knew for certain without any shadow, or doubt, of the verity of God, His justice, wisdom and love, they still would refuse to follow Him for whatever reason. Perhaps it would be a misunderstanding such as the ones you guys are making. Or maybe a person just might not want to live a religious life. At any rate, He keeps enough doubt in the mix so that all men do not condemn themselves to the extent that there is no way back into His good graces.

  It's not part of marriage according to the definition you've chosen. Homosexuality among many animal species — including humans — is obviously ‘natural.’

  Not based on human physiology. None of the parts fit where they’re supposed to. As far as animal species, they suffer some of the same mental and emotional disorders of man. Pedophilia and homosexuality are both unnatural mental disorders, and both very difficult to control, granted.
  
  
  Nowhere in scripture is slavery condemned, either. Do you eat shellfish? Do you wear poly-cotton? Do you observe the Sabbath? Despite the typical cherry-picking for the odd 'nice' thing in the Bible, overall the Bible is a terrible source for human morality.

  I couldn’t agree more. In some cases, human bondage can be an incredibly fair and equitable way of paying off debts without going to a debtor’s prison. What’s not fair is to let people out of their financial obligations while leaving the one holding the debt holding nothing. The Mosaic Law maintained a very fair form of indentured servitude in lieu of payment of debt, either to the one you owed money to or to another person, as the details were worked out before a judge. Debt owers also had their debts forgiven every seventh year, and it was against God’s Law to deny money to someone just because a debt forgiveness holiday was coming up. Crop owners had to leave some of their crops in the field so they could be gleaned by the poor, and even people with date trees were forbidden to cover them to protect them from birds. The entire Law was a masterpiece of Justice.

  You're clearly a bigot, so why would the discreet homosexuals reveal anything about their sexuality to you? So of course your experience with homosexuals is going to be largely restricted to the ‘flamboyant’ ones.

  I’m no bigot, I’m biased. A bigot greatly prefers his own kind of political, social, religious and financial peers, and this is certainly not the case with me. I’ve had good friends who are homosexual and, like I said, it’s not my place to judge them. And based on my personal beliefs, gleaned not only from the scriptures but in reading numerous near death experiences, everyone has issues they have to work through in this life. I also believe we all had premortal lives in the spirit, and that we came into mortality with these issues. (As difficult as it may seem; as difficult as it may be to believe, I, too, have issues I struggle with each day.) I have no desire to interfere with anyone’s lifestyle or sexual proclivities, but the scriptures mean what they say, and endless rationalizations change nothing. The Hebrew scriptures and traditions are steeped in history, and historians and theologians know beyond a doubt what the views of the scriptures were, and that homosexuality was not condoned in any way, shape or form. Jesus not only didn’t change these views, but His apostles iterated the ancient commandments against homosexuality.

  The Lord has promised that despite our challenges in this life, “all things wherewith you have been afflicted shall work together for your good.” So whether homosexuality, pedophilia and other predilections are genetic or something more remains a mystery. From a social sense, it may be acceptable. You decide. But the scriptures are clear on the matter, and that it’s now suddenly ambiguous is just another reason we need men who can speak authoritatively for God.
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  3

  Bethel or HQ Employees: Your Outlooks

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i read another post about bethel employees who complained about the food and was surprised there were so many here.. it struck me as odd that those in the belly of the beast, so to speak, had some of the attitudes they had.

  tell me, if you worked there, what type of work were you doing?

  volunteer work?

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  Cold Steel

  “The cleaning crew went through me albums while I was working...damn snoops turned me in to the home overseer ... they were most upset over the images on my Pink Floyd Album, The Wall. They asked my what I planned to do with them. I asked them what they wanted me to do with them since I never [listened] to them (my record player was broken). They said I had to decide what to do to with them and then let them know.” —Biff McFly

  Really? I suppose their point was, we’re going to tell you what you did wrong and we’re going to let you decide to do the right thing...or else! What would have happened next had you not done the right thing and hid them? Seriously, you had a few options. You could have sent them home, or to someone else, to hold for you while you were away...or you could have destroyed the albums and burned the jacket...or you could have kept the albums and burned the jacket. If it was the images only, would they have objected to the albums? Anyway, as the Chad Mitchell Trio noted: “If Mommy is a Commie, then you’ve got to turn her in!”

  BTW, did the cleaning crews have the authority to snoop on residents? When you signed whatever agreement you signed, did you surrender your rights to privacy? What if you’d had a safe, would they have objected to that?

  “I think what is often forgotten is that JWs are constantly reminded that this is God's organization! So, you expect much from the so-called House of God (Bethel).” —JoePublisher1

  Which brings up a thought. What happens if someone honestly questions the church at Bethel? Also, if you see GB members in a library, the lunch room or in the hallway, are you free to speak to them or are you told not to speak to them? In some companies or corporations, you’re told not to even make eye contact with top executives. But let’s say one speaks to you first and then you ask, “By the way, Brother Jones, anciently the Lord spoke through apostles via the Holy Spirit. Is the church still led that way in our time? Even though there are no more apostles, we do have a General Body. Do they have the same sort of inspiration as the ancient apostles?”

  Would you be disciplined or would the brother try to explain the answer? In short, how large was the rift between the rank and file employee or volunteer and the upper crust?

  “My most disturbing Bethel experience was when my husband hooked up with someone else’s wife and I was not allowed to sit in on the judicial meetings to hear what he had to say or to keep him honest about the nature of our relationship. And then how he wasn’t disfellowshipped, although he never asked me to take him back and clearly told me of his intention to be with her.” —Mocha Latte

  This is an amazing story. A man who commits adultery and then isn’t “cut off,” or excommunicated. Especially when he finds solace in the arms of a married woman! Add to that that you have no input into the case makes it even worse. Did they attempt to take any action against you, and what kind of divorcement agreement did you make? Did the church decide your alimony or did you go before a civil judge?
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  165

  Your most DISTURBING WATCHTOWER Bethel/Branch experience? (No full names please)

  by Balaamsass in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  ok.. you 70 plus bethelite members.... this is your chance to share stories!

  inquiring minds want to know !no full names please..follow t.o.s.

  to avoid borg libel lawsuits).. i will start the ball rolling with week one.

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  Cold Steel

  “The cleaning crew went through me albums while I was working...damn snoops turned me in to the home overseer ... they were most upset over the images on my Pink Floyd Album, The Wall. They asked my what I planned to do with them. I asked them what they wanted me to do with them since I never [listened] to them (my record player was broken). They said I had to decide what to do to with them and then let them know.” —Biff McFly

  Really? I suppose their point was, we’re going to tell you what you did wrong and we’re going to let you decide to do the right thing...or else! What would have happened next had you not done the right thing and hid them? Seriously, you had a few options. You could have sent them home, or to someone else, to hold for you while you were away...or you could have destroyed the albums and burned the jacket...or you could have kept the albums and burned the jacket. If it was the images only, would they have objected to the albums? Anyway, as the Chad Mitchell Trio noted: “If Mommy is a Commie, then you’ve got to turn her in!”

  BTW, did the cleaning crews have the authority to snoop on residents? When you signed whatever agreement you signed, did you surrender your rights to privacy? What if you’d had a safe, would they have objected to that?

  “I think what is often forgotten is that JWs are constantly reminded that this is God's organization! So, you expect much from the so-called House of God (Bethel).” —JoePublisher1

  Which brings up a thought. What happens if someone honestly questions the church at Bethel? Also, if you see GB members in a library, the lunch room or in the hallway, are you free to speak to them or are you told not to speak to them? In some companies or corporations, you’re told not to even make eye contact with top executives. But let’s say one speaks to you first and then you ask, “By the way, Brother Jones, anciently the Lord spoke through apostles via the Holy Spirit. Is the church still led that way in our time? Even though there are no more apostles, we do have a General Body. Do they have the same sort of inspiration as the ancient apostles?”

  Would you be disciplined or would the brother try to explain the answer? In short, how large was the rift between the rank and file employee or volunteer and the upper crust?

  “My most disturbing Bethel experience was when my husband hooked up with someone else’s wife and I was not allowed to sit in on the judicial meetings to hear what he had to say or to keep him honest about the nature of our relationship. And then how he wasn’t disfellowshipped, although he never asked me to take him back and clearly told me of his intention to be with her.” —Mocha Latte

  This is an amazing story. A man who commits adultery and then isn’t “cut off,” or excommunicated. Especially when he finds solace in the arms of a married woman! Add to that that you have no input into the case makes it even worse. Did they attempt to take any action against you, and what kind of divorcement agreement did you make? Did the church decide your alimony or did you go before a civil judge?
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  116

  God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites - What does the bible REALLY teach?

  by irondork in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  that is why god gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature;and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.

  romans 1:26,27.

  (excerpts from: homosexianity by r. d. weekly for the sake of familiarity, scripture quotations appearing in the book were replaced with the new world translation) http://www.amazon.com/homosexianity-letting-devastating-scripture-orientation/dp/1442163062/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=utf8&qid=1356175321&sr=1-1&keywords=homosexianity.

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  Cold Steel

  Cold Steel: Are you seriously arguing that Paul thought there was nothing unnatural about homosexuality, pedophilia, bestiality and other deviant sexual practices?

  Umm...no...I was seriously arguing that Paul thought there was something unnatural about homosexuality, pedophilia, bestiality and other deviant sexual practices, including those involving heterosexuality.

  I concede that Paul wrote some of his own personal views in his epistles; however, his views on homosexuality square with the ancient views handed down by men of God in the Old Testament. What I am saying is that according to the Law, homosexuality is unnatural. The scriptures don’t necessarily ban pedophilia; however, few would argue that pedophilia is justified under divine law. Few also would argue that it’s not a sexual deviancy.

  God instituted marriage and decreed that all sexual activity outside of marriage is a serious sin. Since homosexuality is not a part of marriage, it obviously is unnatural. Nowhere in scripture is homosexuality justified; instead it is branded as “effeminate” or “unnatural” or “strange flesh.”

  You may say that many homosexuals are as discreet as heterosexuals, yet based on my own experiences, a great many are flamboyant, garish, effeminate and in your face. I also couldn’t help but notice your screen name, irondork, where “dork” is obviously a vulgar slang for penis. So what’s with that? Based on my own observations, irondork, the homosexual community isn’t just a bunch of guys who like guys; they’re a subculture all their own. And with most of the ones I know, the preoccupation with their sexual proclivities can be extraordinarily crude at times. Why all the damn emphasis on sex?

  Look, no one’s trying to take rights away from homosexuals; but trying to rewrite the scriptures to accommodate their lifestyles is a fallacy. Do you think any of the ancient prophets or apostles, if you could go back in time and ask them, would tell you that homosexuality would be okay as long as it wasn’t combined, or associated, with idolatry?

  The scriptures are clear, and what you are proffering is no different than what Jehovah's Witnesses do with the scriptures. They take something that’s perfectly clear and then they obfuscate them to the point where they no longer mean what they appear to mean. Homosexuals simply rewrite every exegesis that’s ever been written, argue that the scriptures have been long misunderstood, get a few crosses, some chartreuse robes, buy a church building, get a ministerial certificate or two and now we’ve got another church for the Yellow Pages, this time built around sexual preference.

  So that’s the problem. We sinful mortals are expected to comply with God’s commandments and not the other way around. The so-called “gay” lifestyle tends to be substantially more promiscuous and depraved than heterosexual lifestyles. That doesn’t mean heterosexual lifestyles can’t be corrupted as well and, when they are, they are every bit as abominable to the Lord. Peter warned:

  For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption.... (2 Peter 2:18-19)

  Corruption is defined as “to ruin utterly in character or quality,” and thus those who are the “servants of corruption” ruin “the character and quality” of the scriptures and the servants of God to their own ends, promising, through vanity and the “lusts of the flesh,” liberty to those who might have otherwise escaped those “who live in error.” Peter, in this chapter, also emphasizes that in times past God destroyed those who did the same and asks how those in the future who do it can escape similar wrath from the Lord.
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  3

  Bethel or HQ Employees: Your Outlooks

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i read another post about bethel employees who complained about the food and was surprised there were so many here.. it struck me as odd that those in the belly of the beast, so to speak, had some of the attitudes they had.

  tell me, if you worked there, what type of work were you doing?

  volunteer work?

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  Cold Steel

  I read another post about Bethel employees who complained about the food and was surprised there were so many here.

  It struck me as odd that those in the belly of the beast, so to speak, had some of the attitudes they had. Tell me, if you worked there, what type of work were you doing? Volunteer work? And what's the difference between Bethel and the Brooklyn, N.Y., Office? Doesn't it refer to zones within the organization?

  How many of you actually worked at Headquarters, or were able to meet, see or talk to Governing Board members? If you did have access to your church authorities, did you have a great deal of respect for them? Were they good, decent, honorable men?

  Some of you older guys and gals may remember Ross Perot. When I worked at NIH years ago, I ran into one of our managers who had once worked for Perot, someone I had voted for as President. I asked her if he was a kook, as some had maintained, or whether he was made of sterner stuff. She replied that as a person, Perot was one of the greatest men she'd ever known. She didn't know much about his politics, but she said he ran his business well. Two of his people were kidnapped by Iranians after the Revolution, and when the U.S. government didn't do anything about it, he put together some professional soldiers who went in and got them out at a great cost to Perot. She also said that if he learned that any of his employees had a health or wealth problem, that he would go see them, find a nearby office and do everything he could for them, including finding doctors and following up with flowers and visits. His loyalty to his people, she continued, was something she'd never seen before or since, and she never heard of anyone fired just before retirement age or for more niggardly reasons.

  So I wondered how the GB members were when dealing with employees at HQ? I'd like to hear any positive or negative stories. What kind of work went on there and who did most of the writing, employees or the general authorities? Who did the layout and where were the publications printed and distributed from? Did/do members of the GB go out of their way to succor and protect the employees lower on the foodchain?

  Just curious. Also, who has the most authority?